THE Hoover Forum - Rezoning History

HSCIN

Ex Member

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #60 - 02/06/08 at 6:39pm

Birmingham News (AL)
FARR SETS SPAIN PARK MIDDLE SCHOOL TIMELINE

May 28, 2003
Section: Neighborhoods
Page: 1-H
JON ANDERSON News staff writer
The wheels have started turning for a middle school at Spain Park.

Hoover schools Superintendent Jack Farr last week recommended that the Hoover school board pick an architect at its next meeting, June 24, to design a fourth middle school.

Farr laid out a projected timeline for construction that would have the school opening in August 2005. That's welcome news for many parents at Greystone El ementary, who have lobbied school officials to get moving on the school.

Greystone parents say they don't like the idea of sending their middle school children as far as 14 miles across town to Berry Middle School on congested U.S. 280 and two interstates.

They have complained that the middle school construction date seemed to keep getting pushed back. School officials have said the growth on the eastern side of town simply hasn't been as great as earlier projected, and the number of middle school students hasn't been enough to justify another school.

Farr has said, however, that the school system will build a middle school at Spain Park before it's needed. They don't want to wait too late and end up with portable classrooms somewhere, he said.

Rick Neathammer, a leader among parents pushing for the school, said parents are pleased to see the school opening slated for 2005.

"The sooner we get it built, the happier everybody will be," Neathammer said. "If it happened much later, our kids would miss it."

The projected planning and construction schedule Farr laid out last week would have the board select an architect and a civil engineer in June.

A schematic design would be done by August. A construction crew would mobilize in late January, begin site clearing and grading in February, start building in April and complete the school in June 2005.

Spain "It's a reasonable schedule, unless we have more rain than we're having now," he said.

Exactly who would go to the school is still uncertain. Farr said he would rather wait to establish zone lines until probably the middle of the second year of construction.

By waiting, they'll get a more accurate picture of where the growth is and where better to draw the lines, he said.

"I'd rather do the zoning in a year and a half when the num bers are a little larger," Farr said. "As we look at it right now, we might have to stretch to get what we would like to start the school with.

"Certainly zoning is something that's based on common sense," Farr said. "If you live within two miles, you know you'll be zoned there."

For those farther out, a decision will have to be made whether to send them to Spain Park or to Berry, he said.

School officials also will wait to decide whether to start Spain Park Middle School with just a sixth grade, a sixth and seventh grade, or a sixth, seventh and eighth grade, Farr said.

"We'll listen to parents," he said. "We'll talk through all those things and listen to what everyone has to say, and I'll make a decision and make a recommendation."

Farr said school officials and parents may not always have the same thoughts, but they all have the same goal. "They want to find the best way to do this to make the transition the best it can be," he said.

Farr said some of the parents don't think school system administrators are committed to getting the middle school built, but "the commitment has been there a long time."

Sometimes projections don't turn out to be reality, he said. If the new projection does, his original projection for opening the school may end up being off by just one year, he said.

Back to top

IP Logged

HSCIN

Ex Member

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #61 - 02/06/08 at 6:40pm

Birmingham News (AL)
BE CAREFUL WITH HOOVER SCHOOL SYSTEM

May 7, 2003
Section: Neighborhoods
Page: 1-H
Peggy Sanford
Hoover's school system, probably as much as any one aspect of life in the city, is the carrot that continues to lure residents in.

Standardized test scores for 2002 again affirmed that Hoover students, overall, are performing at the top levels in the state.

At a time when (once again in Alabama) a crisis in state funding has most school systems looking for ways to cut staff and programs to stay afloat, Hoover is spending millions on construction and renovations. It is preparing a site off Old Montgomery Highway to build the city's 10th elementary school, a $12 million project.

The school system also is spending close to $1 million to renovate Shades Mountain Elementary; $986,218 to renovate the stadium at Berry Middle and $496,000 for roofing work at four schools.

The system also stands ready to spend about $1.77 million to rearrange the softball and football fields at Simmons Middle to make room for a regulation size football field and track. A concession stand and restrooms also are to be added there. That project can take off as soon as school officials figure out how to provide almost 300 more parking spaces at Simmons.

Those are some of the system's current building projects. Obviously, Hoover school officials are feeling comfortable with finances.

Despite all that, the projection that enrollment for the next school year could grow by 300 to 500 pupils and top 11,000 can send a chill down a parent's back.

That growth comes without one house built in the planned Ross Creek development in Shades Valley; with but a few homes built in The Preserve subdivision and with growth still flourishing in new sectors of Trace Crossings.

Parents at Greystone Elementary are clamoring for a middle school on their side of town. The school board has land for it at Spain Park, but no commitment for when it will be built.

The need for a third high school in Hoover is a given. The questions are how soon and how big?

Will a third high school be another behemoth like Hoover and Spain Park high schools? If the city continues to add new territory and grow at its current rate, how can school officials avoid building another huge high school, even though there's research to suggest students perform better in small schools?

At what point does large become unwieldy and begin taxing the schools' ability to keep class sizes low and instructional quality high?

Hoover's school system is too valuable of an asset to overload. Surely the city's political leaders haven't lost sight of that.

Back to top

IP Logged

HSCIN

Ex Member

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #62 - 02/06/08 at 6:42pm

Birmingham News (AL)
MAZUR QUESTIONS IF PEARS PROMISED NEW SCHOOL

March 26, 2003
Section: Neighborhoods
Page: 2-H
ERIC VELASCO News staff writer
Hoover Councilwoman Donna Mazur suggested last week that a school board member has courted support for reappointment by promising a middle school at Spain Park.

The accusation is the latest twist leading to an April 7 City Council vote on who should serve a five-year term on the school board in the seat now held by Robert Pears.

In late February, Council President Bob Austin announced that the council would appoint former school superintendent Robert Bumpus to Pears' seat. Departing from standard procedure, Austin said at the time that the council would not seek applications for the appointment.

After complaints by several residents and council members, however, Austin agreed to open the application process. Pears, who has lobbied hard for reappointment, is one of three appli cants for the seat.

Bumpus already has been interviewed by the council's two school-board liaisons, Austin and Mazur. Pears and the third applicant, Charles Hickman, will be interviewed Thursday.

Although there is no official cutoff to apply, Austin said he believes everyone who is interested has submitted resumes.

"I can't believe anyone who is serious about it would apply this late," he said.

At the March 17 meeting, resident John Whitaker questioned the potential appointment of Bumpus, making indirect references to his belief that Pears is more qualified than Bumpus.

"Were you told by Mr. Pears that if he is reappointed there would be a new middle school at Spain Park?" Mazur asked Whitaker, referring to a burning issue among many Greystone parents. Greystone now is in the district for Berry Middle School in north central Hoover.

"I'm offended that you would suggest a sweetheart deal," the Riverchase resident replied.

"That is what I've been told," Mazur said.

Pears denied linking his reappointment to getting the middle school approved.

"I have not made a promise to anyone about anything," he said, noting that school officials already have announced they are moving forward with the Spain Park middle school and probably will announce con struction details in April.

"I support Spain Park Middle School," Pears said. "I believe the school board will move forward with the issue. If we can have students in that school by August of 2005, that would be a good target date."

Mazur said last week she had repeated at the council meeting what she had been told by several sources.

"That's the only reason I asked that question," Mazur said. "I've heard that from everyone. I wanted to clear the air and ask him."

Back to top

IP Logged

HSCIN

Ex Member

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #63 - 02/06/08 at 6:43pm

Birmingham News (AL)
CITY TO BREAK GROUND SOON ON 10TH ELEMENTARY SCHOOL

February 26, 2003
Section: Neighborhoods
Page: 4-H
JON ANDERSON News staff writer
The Hoover Board of Education should break ground in Riverchase by spring for its 10th elementary school, officials said.

Also, a timeline to build a fourth middle school at Spain Park should be established by the end of this school year, Superintendent Jack Farr said.

The school board hopes to award bids for grading work at the 20-acre Riverchase Elementary site off Old Montgomery Highway in late March or April, said Gary McBay, who oversees construction for Hoover schools.

Building construction should begin by June, he said. The targeted opening date is August 2004.

The school will be larger than originally expected, pushing up the price, McBay said. Officials had anticipated Riverchase Elementary would be 85,000 to 95,000 square feet based on early estimates, but new drawings put the school at about 100,000 square feet, McBay said.

The numbers probably are different because early projections were based on elementary schools with different designs, McBay said. Changes in design often require a change in the square footage for common areas, such as hallways or restrooms, he said.

The architect and construction management firm estimated construction cost at about $11.9 million, up nearly $2 million from original estimates of $10 million, Farr said. The new projections, however, have some cushion built in and are high, he said.

Spain Park Middle

Meanwhile, parents at Greystone Elementary continue to push for construction of a middle school at Spain Park. They have complained that the projected construction date seems to keep getting pushed back.

Farr told the school board recently that growth on the eastern side of Hoover simply hasn't been as great as projected. There haven't been enough students there to build a fourth middle school yet, he said.

However, "we're going to build that school before we need it. That's the bottom line," Farr said.

School board member Robert Pears said he'd like to have the middle school built soon and questioned why school officials couldn't go ahead and hire an architect to design it.

Farr said it would cost more money to design the school far in advance of construction. He said he would rather wait until a construction timeline is established, and he should have a timeline by April or May.

Once the process is started, it will take two years until the school is ready to open, Farr said.

Right now, school system employees are working diligently to determine the best way to draw school zone lines and whether to open the school in stages, Farr said. They have to decide whether the school should open with all three grades, a sixth and seventh grade or just a sixth grade, Farr said.

"I'm not real sure it makes a lot of sense to pull eighth-graders and do harm to extra-curricular programs," he said. "We don't want to do harm to existing middle schools."

Farr said he hopes everyone understands that school administrators haven't forgotten about a Spain Park middle school and haven't been dragging their feet.

"When you make projections, sometimes projections don't come exactly as we project them," he said.

The school system has shown its commitment to students on that side of town, Farr said. Greystone Elementary was opened with less than 200 students, and the school board already has the land for the middle school at Spain Park, he said.

Back to top

IP Logged

begood

Hoover Forum Sophomore

THE Hoover Forum

Posts: 144

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #64 - 02/06/08 at 9:56pm

Quote from HSCIN on 02/06/08 at 4:19pm:

Quote from begood on 02/06/08 at 12:49pm:

i agree that GV spoke up for what they wanted and "got a seat at the table". But is that what is best for the whole community? Once you let one group decide what is best for them then you have to listen to other areas also and give them a "seat at the table". I agree with most of what HCSIN but not this time. That last comment really exposes a self-serving aspect to your viewpoint and (unusally) not for the good of all people.

Let me clarify.....it wasn't just the Green Valley folks that Green Valley got a seat at the table for. It was the ENTIRE COMMUNITY that got a say. Green Valley folks worked to get the Community Planning Process (outlined at this link: http://www.hscin.org/RezoningProcessPresentation.pdf ) in place for the ENTIRE COMMUNITY to participate in. The ENTIRE COMMUNITY was given the opportunity to participate in focus groups to develop the values that the telephone surveys (again....the ENTIRE COMMUNITY had an opportunity to participate, not just Green Valley folks) then rated for importance and put on paper to have the Community Planning Team (again...the ENTIRE COMMUNITY had an opportunity to participate on the Community Planning Team) judge the different scenarios by to see how well they fit with the ENTIRE COMMUNITY'S value judgements about education.

So yes, that IS what's best for the ENTIRE COMMUNITY. One group didn't decide. You're skipping steps here, begood. You're reading the parts you want to read.

Thanks for the slap in the face. Self-serving. 'Preciate it.

Please don't be so sensitive. I read all parts and I still think that although a compromise was reached it all first served the interest of GV - not to be rezoned. And BTW, for whatever reason, the process did not represent the entire community...there were many parts (i.e., GS) that were not represented. I'm not saying it would have turned out any differently, but it may have. Again, I do not live in GS so this is just an observation. It all worked out fine, in the short run, and now we face the chaos again. What, in your knowledgable opinion, do you think would have been the outcome if GM's first plan had been followed?

Back to top

IP Logged

commonsense

Hoover Forum Freshman

THE Hoover Forum

Posts: 38

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #65 - 02/06/08 at 10:19pm

Begood

The information is right in front of you. The entire community was represented. Everyone had the opportunity to put their hat in the ring. The reason the Greystone community didn't have "representation"; they were the only one in a school system that had 10 elementary schools at the time, was because this didn't affect them at that time. Why would they need representation? I laugh at the Greystone community not having "representation". They basically have a private elementary school, a BRAND NEW middle school and high school and they complain about not being represented?? The GV, Bluff Park and Gwin communities chose to live where they live because of the stability. Many could live in new neighborhoods, more affluent neighborhoods, etc. but they chose not to because of the neighborhood and sense of community. Bottom line is we all live in Hoover. It is growing. Our schools are one of the main attractions to this city. I have to believe that once we get over these growing pains that we can start truly moving forward academically. Someone is going to have to give. It may be me, it may be you but whoever it is it won't be fun and it might not be easy but if it is for the best in the long run we may just have to go with it. I give Andy and his staff a lot of credit for taking the time to listen. They don't have to. Read the history. This goes back to 2003 with Rocky Ridge. They started the ball rolling and it snowballed from there. It kind of makes sense when you do go through the facts-- it will help you understand how we got to where we are and hopefully it will help this administration make a more informed and long range decision. We have progressed. If you were involved three to four years ago you would see that. It may not seem like much but it is forward movement.

Back to top

IP Logged

Hoovergal

Hoover Forum Sophomore

THE Hoover Forum

Posts: 119

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #66 - 02/06/08 at 10:58pm

Quote from commonsense on 02/06/08 at 10:19pm:

Begood

The information is right in front of you. The entire community was represented. Everyone had the opportunity to put their hat in the ring. The reason the Greystone community didn't have "representation"; they were the only one in a school system that had 10 elementary schools at the time, was because this didn't affect them at that time. Why would they need representation? I laugh at the Greystone community not having "representation". They basically have a private elementary school, a BRAND NEW middle school and high school and they complain about not being represented?? The GV, Bluff Park and Gwin communities chose to live where they live because of the stability. Many could live in new neighborhoods, more affluent neighborhoods, etc. but they chose not to because of the neighborhood and sense of community. Bottom line is we all live in Hoover. It is growing. Our schools are one of the main attractions to this city. I have to believe that once we get over these growing pains that we can start truly moving forward academically. Someone is going to have to give. It may be me, it may be you but whoever it is it won't be fun and it might not be easy but if it is for the best in the long run we may just have to go with it. I give Andy and his staff a lot of credit for taking the time to listen. They don't have to. Read the history. This goes back to 2003 with Rocky Ridge. They started the ball rolling and it snowballed from there. It kind of makes sense when you do go through the facts-- it will help you understand how we got to where we are and hopefully it will help this administration make a more informed and long range decision. We have progressed. If you were involved three to four years ago you would see that. It may not seem like much but it is forward movement.

Greystone did not have a representative on the Community Planning Team because their name was not drawn out of the hat (actually, it was a bowl). They were not too concerned at that time because they were, as commonsense stated, going to their brand new, private middle school and they thought whatever happen with rezoning would not affect them, so they took little interest. I don't think people from Greystone ever showed up for any of the Community Planning Team meetings or the BOE meetings. When the final zoning plan was presented at Thursday night work session, debated, discussed-they were not there. But by Monday night's meeting the Greystone community packed the room. Furious. Why? After the Thursday night work session, word got back to them that the revised zoning plan recommended by Dr. Williams sent the Riverchase community to their new middle school and they were not happy about it.

Back to top

IP Logged

HSCIN

Ex Member

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #67 - 02/07/08 at 8:33am

From the article about the names put in the hat for the Community Planning Team:

"Parent group nominees: Green Valley Elementary parent yet to be named, Cindy Wood (Gwin Elementary), Don Monk (Shades Mountain Elementary), Peggy Powell (South Shades Crest Elementary), Terri Lynn Hosmer (Bumpus Middle) and Lisa Weaver (Simmons Middle)."

Each PTO was asked to nominate one person. I have the list of nominees, and apparently the other PTOs hadn't yet submitted a name when this article was written.

Here are the names:
Stacey Stocks - Bluff Park
Liz Wallace - Deer Valley
Green Valley - "to be named"
Greystone - Marquita Cocke
Gwin - Cindy Wood
Riverchase Elementary - Valeta Neal
Rocky Ridge - Sharon Charley
Shades Mountain - Don Monk
South Shades Crest - Peggy Powell
Trace Crossings - Ben Chambless
Berry Middle - Lee Hughes
Bumpus Middle - Teri Lynn Hosmer
Simmon Middle - Lisa Weaver
Hoover High - Terra Richardson
Spain Park - Taul Payne

It was the Green Valley people who put the idea of the Community Planning Team on the Table, my2cents. They didn't just fight to get out of the track to Berry Middle and Spain Park High. If you'll review the articles, you'll see that Green Valley was taken out of the mix early on. But the fight continued, this time from Shades Mountain and Riverchase. But the Green Valley people stayed on. They recognized the need for the ENTIRE COMMUNITY to have a voice in whether or not their children stayed in schools in their community.

Someone asked where would we be if Green Valley had just gone on to Berry Middle and Spain Park. I guess my son would be at Spain Park along with lots of other families' children.

What would that have done to the Simmons' community? Would the Trace Crossings folks have bought in to the mission of Simmons? Would they be able to be integrally involved due to the proximity of their community?

Would Riverchase have gone on to Berry Middle as planned?

Who would the new principal have been at what would have been named Spain Park Middle School? Where would the new teachers have come from? What would the programming be at both middle schools?

What would it be like to have four middle schools with around 600-700 kids at each middle school?

What would it have done to the property values in the Green Valley zone that was closest to Simmons Middle School? Would those be desirable houses for families to live in if they knew that a functioning middle school was less than two miles from their house but they'd have to travel in a different direction (although we would get bus service!) to go to middle school?

Would Trace Crossings be willing to financially support Simmons when they'd been Bumpus supporters all this time? What would Trace Crossings reaction really have been if the plan had gone through? Would they have willingly marched on?

What if Riverchase went to the new middle school and Bluff Park got sent with Green Valley? We'd have Bluff Park, Green Valley, and Shades Mountain at Berry, Gwin and Trace Crossings at Simmons (and probably part of Deer Valley by now), and South Shades Crest and Deer Valley at Bumpus. What would that have done to Bluff Park's property values (to the ones who were closest to Simmons)?

We'll never know the answers to these questions. Maybe we were better off when they just told us where we were going to school and we all just said "yes sir" and marched off like soldiers. Maybe true community involvement is not a good thing after all.

Here is the Original McBay Plan: http://hooverforum.com/hoover/YaBB.pl?num=1202227776/50#50

Back to top

« Last Edit: 02/07/08 at 9:46am by HSCIN »

IP Logged

HSCIN

Ex Member

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #68 - 02/07/08 at 8:56am

Community Planning Team Nominees:

City Council Nominees

Kim Butler
Earl Cooper
Rhonda Diliberto
Karen Holmes
Kathy Hutcheson
Laura Lowe
Theresa Petelos
Joe Rieves
Loree Skelton
Jill Wootten

Chamber of Commerce Nominees

Mike Hayes
Debbie Rockwell
Lynn Thomas
Doug Warnat

Board of Education Nominees

Sharon Baroody
Keith Clowers
Susan Filippini
Jennifer Fuller
Sammy Harris
Paul Huckeba
Dian T. Johnson
Ann Molony
Tammy McCarty
Shiela Mulkey

PTO/PTA/PTSO Nominees

Named above

Community-At-Large Nominees

Deanna Bamman
Tina Bearden
Jack E. Brymer
William Elrod
Fran Freeman
Myron Freeman
Steve Frost
Julie Gibbs-Erwin
James Groves
Robin Harrison
Randi Hartley
Sandra Hassett
Wendy Herring
Kendall Hoffman
Vickie Huckeba
Afif Kanafani
Carla Kanafani
Penni Koch
Lori Martin
Lana Mawhinney
Scott Myers
Richard Neathammer
Tina Neathammer
Kris Nuss
Rhonda Peoples
Troy Raybon
Julie Richey
Melinda Rieves
Janis Slack
Debbie Smith
Jill Stalnaker
Connie Thomas
William Thomas
Mark Williams
Janet Winters

Back to top

IP Logged

HSCIN

Ex Member

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #69 - 02/07/08 at 9:09am

Sorry...this one's out of reverse chronological order, but is important to put a date on it.

Birmingham News (AL)
ZONING APPROVED FOR ADDITION OF MIDDLE SCHOOL AT SPAIN PARK

December 11, 2003
Section: Neighborhoods
Page: 3-C
TROY GOODMAN News staff writer
The Hoover Planning and Zoning Commission has voted to allow the city's schools to build a middle school on a 30-acre parcel next to Spain Park High School.

The commission granted approval Monday during a meeting that included dozens of comments from residents who oppose the way the school is being positioned next to a residential street.

Noel Chambless, president of the Inverness Master Homeowners Asso ciation, said the dispute boiled down to the school system not being willing to increase the 150-foot tree and hill buffer now planned between the school and the homes. The residential group wants the buffer widened to 200 feet or more.

The new middle school "has got 30 acres and we need 200 feet," Chambless testified before the commission.

The commission voted unanimously to approve the middle school site plan with the 150-foot buffer. The issue now goes before the City Council on Jan. 5.

Gary McBay, director of school services, told the residents he already had listened to their concerns and widened the tree and hill buffer from an initial plan of 80 feet to the 150 feet. Hoover's building and zoning rules only require a 35-foot buffer between a school and a residential community.

"To say that we have ignored their comments is an outright lie," McBay said.

Blueprints call for the school to be 150,000 square feet, with construction to begin next year and the building to be open by mid-2005.

Back to top

IP Logged

my2cents Hoover Forum All-Star Member THE Hoover Forum Posts: 395	Re: Rezoning History Reply #70 - 02/07/08 at 10:55am HSCIN, I haven't had time to read all the posts you have made, but I am working my way through them. When I asked why BP owed GV it was because I interpreted that you felt GV did all the work. Having read some of your posts, I now understand what you wanted me to see.
Back to top	IP Logged

Bucsamillion

Hoover Forum Sophomore

THE Hoover Forum

Posts: 158
Gender: male

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #71 - 02/08/08 at 1:06pm

Quote from slab on 02/05/08 at 10:00pm:

Quote from HSCIN on 02/05/08 at 4:28pm:

So thank you, my Green Valley friends, for reserving our Community a Seat at the Table. Without you, our Bluff Park neighbors would probably be attending Spain Park High School right now. Bluff Park folks, you probably owe the Green Valley folks a pat on the back, too.

A question and a little Devil's Advocate here - if Bluff Park had been rezoned to SP at this time would we still be having this current rezoning discussion? SP would be closer or at capacity and HHS would be several hundred students less, maybe even allowing enough room for the Freshmen to attend.

DANG!!

Back to top

IP Logged

forpeace Hoover Forum JV THE Hoover Forum Posts: 272	Re: Rezoning History Reply #72 - 02/08/08 at 1:20pm I am curious as to why anyone would ever think it would make sense for people in Bluff Park to drive past and through Green Valley to get to Spain Park? If one of the two should be rezoned, clearly Green Valley is closer. Of course, it really doesn't make sense for people in Green Valley to go to Spain Park either.
Back to top	IP Logged

hibousage

Hoover Forum All-Star Member

THE Hoover Forum

Posts: 912

Re: Rezoning History
Reply #73 - 02/08/08 at 10:00pm

Quote from forpeace on 02/08/08 at 1:20pm:

I am curious as to why anyone would ever think it would make sense for people in Bluff Park to drive past and through Green Valley to get to Spain Park? If one of the two should be rezoned, clearly Green Valley is closer. Of course, it really doesn't make sense for people in Green Valley to go to Spain Park either.

We're talking about rezoning here. How dare you ask if things make sense?

Back to top

Each morning, take time to imagine the person you want to be.

IP Logged