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School Board Application (Read 8614 times)
HSCIN
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School Board Application
02/05/08 at 2:20pm
 
The City Council is now accepting applications for the School Board.  Here's the link:  http://www.hooveral.org/Sites/Hoover/Documents/Hoover/Board%20of%20Education%20A pplication.pdf
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aka_deplume
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Re: School Board Application
Reply #1 - 02/05/08 at 2:44pm
 
Dear Mrs. Frazier, Mrs. Baker, Mr. Defnall, Mr. Bolt, and Mr. Veitch:
 
Please read page 7 of the application.  Aren't you glad that you didn't have to go through this process?  We thank you because if it wasn't for you not following most of the items listed on page 7, things would just go on as they have in the past.  Assuming that the new Board member lives up to the items on page 7, and that this application will be used from here on out, in five years we'll have a Board that actually does what it's supposed to do.
 
Regards,
Aka
 
 
PS - Nice job, whoever drew up this application.  It shows two things.  First, that you have been paying attention.  Second, that you're sick of the status quo also.  Now just make sure you're not blowing smoke and ask each applicant if they can live with each and every item on page 7.
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BucStopsHere
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Re: School Board Application
Reply #2 - 02/07/08 at 9:12am
 
I have some problems w/ this application.
 
o There is a question regarding relatives employed. Why is this asked? There is no law or rule saying that a Board member cannot have relatives who are employees. I agree that this is good to know when comparing applicants, but hope it is not an automatic disqualifier.
 
o For the same reason the "relative as employee" is good information to collect, I suggest that a question should have been included regarding children and/or other relatives in the system as students. Who? What school? etc
 
o A question regarding service on other Boards would be nice. Experienced Board members know the proper level at which to operate and have a better feeling for their scope of authority. They should be preferable, especially to us at this time, all else being equal.  
 
o I'm not sure why there is a question about vision for "community outreach". The Board exists solely to supervise and act on the Superintendent's recommendations. Any vision should be his, or perhaps others under his watch. The Board is a policy-setting body, not a PR spin machine. They shouldn't even be expected to mentor the Superintendent as to community outreach. That's just not what the Board is for. In fact, Board members should never be interacting as individuals w/in the community w/ regard to school-related matters. They should only function as a group, and should only be reacting to matters brought to their attention by the Superintendent.
 
o Again, the question regarding "most critical issues facing HCS" is nice to know, but completely irrelevant. A Board member should NOT arrive w/ a lot of preconceived notions and agendas. The responsibility is to react to proposals, NOT to proactively push in any direction.
 
o Same thought as above regarding increasing parent participation. This is just not a matter for a Board to be involved with.
 
o Again, nice to know thoughts on special ed etc, but its the Superintendent's job (along w/ his staff) to assess and suggest improvements where needed. The Board should support suggestions when made and as appropriate.  
 
From this application, I think it is clear that we (as a city) just don't understand the limits on the power of a Board and its members. Please review the linked checklist:
 
http://www.alabamaschoolboards.org/NewMembers_CheckList.html
 
Maybe we expect too much from a Board member, and maybe this is due to having an inexperienced (i.e. zero-experienced) Superintendent? A Board member should show up to each meeting conversant on the topics at hand, and be ready to provide guidance as a group to the Superintendent so that he can have direction to move forward after each meeting. Outside of meetings and such preparation, they have no other obligations. And they should NOT seek other matters to participate in, or even publicly discuss w/ regard to their opinions, as any such activity could later jeopardize the Superintendent's ability to act as he sees fit.
 
Great job on including the responsibilities on page 7!
 
Obviously I disagree w/ the item on page 7 of the app declaring that it is a responsibility of a Board member to "work w/ the Superintendent and community to develop a vision for the school system". When is this supposed to happen? Special Board meetings? To my knowledge there is no latitude under the Open Meetings Act to actively "work w/ the community". This is a responsibility of the Superintendent and his subordinates - not his superiors.
 
Board members are challenged to avoid all conflicts of interest, not to create opportunities for such conflicts by engaging directly w/ the community and its focus groups, active voices, etc. Listening, such as to presentations made during a called meeting, should be encouraged, but not participating on a proactive basis.
 
If the City Council uses app responses to choose a candidate, then that suggests that they could be seeking candidates w/ a bias toward something. Further, if these responses become public info (which I think they will) then the public will also learn what agendas might come attached to certain candidates. This could be good or bad, but it really should be irrelevent for the most part if the Board truly functions as a group and only on matters brought to their attention by Andy.
 
I'm most interested in leadership qualities and actual Board experience, and also in knowledge of education and business management. A new member w/ a great skillset but NO preconceived notions or agendas could be the most attractive, perhaps to the degree that he/she is not extremely familiar w/ the current issues.
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monte
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Re: School Board Application
Reply #3 - 02/07/08 at 10:13am
 
If I am not mistaken, there may be a Board policy prohibiting nepotism. It is never a good idea to have Board members' relatives as employees. Perception of power creates problems. That occurred during the first few years of Hoover schools and was corrected.
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Re: School Board Application
Reply #4 - 02/07/08 at 12:45pm
 
Quote from monte on 02/07/08 at 10:13am:
If I am not mistaken, there may be a Board policy prohibiting nepotism. It is never a good idea to have Board members' relatives as employees. Perception of power creates problems. That occurred during the first few years of Hoover schools and was corrected.

 
 
Page 98 of the Board Policy Manual:
http://www2.hoover.k12.al.us/about/documents/policy.pdf
 
File:  GAAA
Equal Opportunity Employment
 
No person in the School District shall, on the basis of race, color, creed, religion, gender, age, handicap, national origin, or similar personal distinction, be subject to discrimination in regard to employment, retention, promotion, transfer, or dismissal.
 
Nepotism
 
The School Board seeks to hire the most qualified individual for available positions in the Hoover City Schools. Applicants shall be employed on an impartial basis. There shall be no discrimination or favoritism shown to relatives of administrators or any other school employees. Immediate family as defined herein of Board members and the Superintendent shall not be eligible for employment in the School District. No two members of an immediate family, as defined herein, shall be eligible for appointment to a position in the same school or department where one family member is a supervisor. For purposes of this policy, the phrase immediate family shall refer to a spouse, child, parent, brother/sister, or dependent living in the same household.

 
Which would mean that no immediate relative of any person currently employed by the HCS would be eligible to serve as a board member.
 
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Re: School Board Application
Reply #5 - 02/07/08 at 12:59pm
 
If there's a nepotism policy then I've never seen it. <Note: Thanks to aka I've now seen it!> If so, then the app should clearly state that someone would be disqualified, just like it states that one has to be a Hoover resident (this is in state law). While I'm thinking about it, it should also state the same for whatever else is an automatic disqualification (such as I hope many of the crimes inquired about are). But I digress as none of this is really important to me, except for that fact that if they are seeking meaningful information then they should certainly want to know who has kids in the schools.
 
While I'm back, let me clarify an earlier point. I think it's great for Board Members to develop opinions about what the community wants and incorporate this into their decision making process. What I have a problem w/ is selecting someone that already has strong opinions, or that would independently go into the community (or even our schools themselves) to act alone to form new opinions. Opinions should be formed in a group setting assuring that all hear and see the same information at the same time, and at that time a forum should be provided for all sides of an issue to be heard. No one voice should ever rise above the others from the community of Hoover when addressing the Board w/out giving all opposition equal opportunity to speak. If this is what is intended by "working w/ the community" then fine, but it's still really only working w/ the Superintendent (who arranges these affairs on their behalf) to create a vision for the school system.
 
I guess I'm overly sensitive to a certain Board member who likes to pop in and out of schools and classes as if the Board has some unlimited right to act in this fashion, when in fact they have an obligation to avoid engaging in this manner.
 
 
 
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« Last Edit: 02/08/08 at 12:54pm by BucStopsHere »  
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monte
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Re: School Board Application
Reply #6 - 02/08/08 at 12:15pm
 
Quote from BucStopsHere on 02/07/08 at 12:59pm:
If there's a nepotism policy then I've never seen it. If so, then the app should clearly state that someone would be disqualified, just like it states that one has to be a Hoover resident (this is in state law). While I'm thinking about it, it should also state the same for whatever else is an automatic disqualification (such as I hope many of the crimes inquired about are). But I digress as none of this is really important to me, except for that fact that if they are seeking meaningful information then they should certainly want to know who has kids in the schools.

While I'm back, let me clarify an earlier point. I think it's great for Board Members to develop opinions about what the community wants and incorporate this into their decision making process. What I have a problem w/ is selecting someone that already has strong opinions, or that would independently go into the community (or even our schools themselves) to act alone to form new opinions. Opinions should be formed in a group setting assuring that all hear and see the same information at the same time, and at that time a forum should be provided for all sides of an issue to be heard. No one voice should ever rise above the others from the community of Hoover when addressing the Board w/out giving all opposition equal opportunity to speak. If this is what is intended by "working w/ the community" then fine, but it's still really only working w/ the Superintendent (who arranges these affairs on their behalf) to create a vision for the school system.

I guess I'm overly sensitive to a certain Board member who likes to pop in and out of schools and classes as if the Board has some unlimited right to act in this fashion, when in fact they have an obligation to avoid engaging in this manner.

 
Board members "popping in and out" of schools and classes become the basis for school dysfunction. Employees view with suspicion the real cause of unannounced visits, and paranoia inches into cliques of teachers. The principals sometimes react the same. Principals then are occupied with putting out rumor fires. It is absolutely unprofessional behavior for a Board member  to use the schools as a personal destination for whatever reason he/she imagines. This is not helping anyone nor anything. It is an aggravating behavior. No principal or teacher will request the visits to stop for fear of reprisal by the too engaged Board member. Any visit to a school facility should be approved with ample notice by the principal, and one should sign in at the office prior to moving about. A better idea would be to visit only when invited since the Board acts as a body and not as individuals.
 
Modified by admin to fix formatting error.
 
 
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« Last Edit: 02/08/08 at 2:40pm by Hoover Forum Administrator »  
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Re: School Board Application
Reply #7 - 02/08/08 at 2:58pm
 
Quote from monte on 02/08/08 at 12:15pm:
Quote from BucStopsHere on 02/07/08 at 12:59pm:
If there's a nepotism policy then I've never seen it. If so, then the app should clearly state that someone would be disqualified, just like it states that one has to be a Hoover resident (this is in state law). While I'm thinking about it, it should also state the same for whatever else is an automatic disqualification (such as I hope many of the crimes inquired about are). But I digress as none of this is really important to me, except for that fact that if they are seeking meaningful information then they should certainly want to know who has kids in the schools.

While I'm back, let me clarify an earlier point. I think it's great for Board Members to develop opinions about what the community wants and incorporate this into their decision making process. What I have a problem w/ is selecting someone that already has strong opinions, or that would independently go into the community (or even our schools themselves) to act alone to form new opinions. Opinions should be formed in a group setting assuring that all hear and see the same information at the same time, and at that time a forum should be provided for all sides of an issue to be heard. No one voice should ever rise above the others from the community of Hoover when addressing the Board w/out giving all opposition equal opportunity to speak. If this is what is intended by "working w/ the community" then fine, but it's still really only working w/ the Superintendent (who arranges these affairs on their behalf) to create a vision for the school system.

I guess I'm overly sensitive to a certain Board member who likes to pop in and out of schools and classes as if the Board has some unlimited right to act in this fashion, when in fact they have an obligation to avoid engaging in this manner.


Board members "popping in and out" of schools and classes become the basis for school dysfunction. Employees view with suspicion the real cause of unannounced visits, and paranoia inches into cliques of teachers. The principals sometimes react the same. Principals then are occupied with putting out rumor fires. It is absolutely unprofessional behavior for a Board member  to use the schools as a personal destination for whatever reason he/she imagines. This is not helping anyone nor anything. It is an aggravating behavior. No principal or teacher will request the visits to stop for fear of reprisal by the too engaged Board member. Any visit to a school facility should be approved with ample notice by the principal, and one should sign in at the office prior to moving about. A better idea would be to visit only when invited since the Board acts as a body and not as individuals.

Modified by admin to fix formatting error.



 
What if, though, the principal does not mind if the Board member pops in.  If I'm not mistaken, both DF and SB were frequent visitors to SPHS prior to becoming Board members and had established a presence at the school.  Would the professional thing to do not be to disassociate themselves from that particular school and their administration so as not to perceive a bias towards that school?  Or, since they are fixtures there, should they be able to continue to be fixtures there?  After all, if one's children attend a particular school, would one not want to be on the principal's "good side" for the good of one's children?  I would think that it would be to one's advantage to be a Board member and be a regular at the school that one's children attend...
 
And, as the principal of that school, would you not want two of the members who have children at your school to be there, if having them there could mean a friendship with them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the principal works for the superintendent, right?  But in order for the superintendent to make a personnel move he must have the approval of the Board, right?  The superintendent couldn't just fire the principal without taking it to the Board, and if two of the Board members are friends with the principal due to being fixtures at the school, then two votes are already going to go against the superintendent's recommendation, so all that is needed is one more vote against the superintendent's recommendation, right?
 
Things that make you want to say "hmmm"....
 
 
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hoover1990
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Re: School Board Application
Reply #8 - 02/08/08 at 7:32pm
 
Quote from aka_deplume on 02/08/08 at 2:58pm:
Quote from monte on 02/08/08 at 12:15pm:
Quote from BucStopsHere on 02/07/08 at 12:59pm:
If there's a nepotism policy then I've never seen it. If so, then the app should clearly state that someone would be disqualified, just like it states that one has to be a Hoover resident (this is in state law). While I'm thinking about it, it should also state the same for whatever else is an automatic disqualification (such as I hope many of the crimes inquired about are). But I digress as none of this is really important to me, except for that fact that if they are seeking meaningful information then they should certainly want to know who has kids in the schools.

While I'm back, let me clarify an earlier point. I think it's great for Board Members to develop opinions about what the community wants and incorporate this into their decision making process. What I have a problem w/ is selecting someone that already has strong opinions, or that would independently go into the community (or even our schools themselves) to act alone to form new opinions. Opinions should be formed in a group setting assuring that all hear and see the same information at the same time, and at that time a forum should be provided for all sides of an issue to be heard. No one voice should ever rise above the others from the community of Hoover when addressing the Board w/out giving all opposition equal opportunity to speak. If this is what is intended by "working w/ the community" then fine, but it's still really only working w/ the Superintendent (who arranges these affairs on their behalf) to create a vision for the school system.

I guess I'm overly sensitive to a certain Board member who likes to pop in and out of schools and classes as if the Board has some unlimited right to act in this fashion, when in fact they have an obligation to avoid engaging in this manner.


Board members "popping in and out" of schools and classes become the basis for school dysfunction. Employees view with suspicion the real cause of unannounced visits, and paranoia inches into cliques of teachers. The principals sometimes react the same. Principals then are occupied with putting out rumor fires. It is absolutely unprofessional behavior for a Board member to use the schools as a personal destination for whatever reason he/she imagines. This is not helping anyone nor anything. It is an aggravating behavior. No principal or teacher will request the visits to stop for fear of reprisal by the too engaged Board member. Any visit to a school facility should be approved with ample notice by the principal, and one should sign in at the office prior to moving about. A better idea would be to visit only when invited since the Board acts as a body and not as individuals.

Modified by admin to fix formatting error.




What if, though, the principal does not mind if the Board member pops in. If I'm not mistaken, both DF and SB were frequent visitors to SPHS prior to becoming Board members and had established a presence at the school. Would the professional thing to do not be to disassociate themselves from that particular school and their administration so as not to perceive a bias towards that school? Or, since they are fixtures there, should they be able to continue to be fixtures there? After all, if one's children attend a particular school, would one not want to be on the principal's "good side" for the good of one's children? I would think that it would be to one's advantage to be a Board member and be a regular at the school that one's children attend...

And, as the principal of that school, would you not want two of the members who have children at your school to be there, if having them there could mean a friendship with them? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the principal works for the superintendent, right? But in order for the superintendent to make a personnel move he must have the approval of the Board, right? The superintendent couldn't just fire the principal without taking it to the Board, and if two of the Board members are friends with the principal due to being fixtures at the school, then two votes are already going to go against the superintendent's recommendation, so all that is needed is one more vote against the superintendent's recommendation, right?

Things that make you want to say "hmmm"....



Well, it would certainly be possible for the board members who are such good friends with the principal of their kids' school to influence the Superintendent to recommend a big raise for the principal, even one over and above the pay scale for other principals of the same degree and experience level.  A principal would no doubt appreciate such a move, wouldn't he?
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Re: School Board Application
Reply #9 - 02/08/08 at 7:42pm
 
Again, perception of power leads to dysfunction. Respected principals prefer not to deal with faculty fallout resulting from DePlume's example. A professional Board volunteer would understand these organizational dynamics  and pull back his/her involement in school activities. Your scenario is an exact example of meddling in school operations. If one wishes to be a School Board member, one should comprehend the implications of one's behavior and presence upon the employees. For whatever reason a Board member needs to frequently march about the school halls, the behavior has consequences that may go unnoticed until folks realize something "is going wrong." Each school employee reading this will nod.
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HSCIN
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Re: School Board Application
Reply #10 - 02/08/08 at 9:20pm
 
1990, you say:  "Well, it would certainly be possible for the board members who are such good friends with the principal of their kids' school to influence the Superintendent to recommend a big raise for the principal, even one over and above the pay scale for other principals of the same degree and experience level.  A principal would no doubt appreciate such a move, wouldn't he?"
 
I'm curious about this.  In August of 2006, after Richard Bishop was hired as the principal of Hoover High School, with a pay of $122,000 ($12,000 more than Dr. Spivey received as principal, and $12,000 above the pay scale that the same Board had approved less than 3 months earlier), Spain Park High's principal, Mr. Broadway, received a $16,000 raise to raise his pay to $122,000 from $106,000 (Mr. Broadway's salary before Mr. Bishop was hired).  No reason was given for the raise publicly, but I was told in confidence from a Board member why he received that raise, and most of those reasons had to do with the former Superintendent "tying his hands".  
 
Has anyone else heard of a principal receiving a 16% raise in one year?
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Re: School Board Application
Reply #11 - 02/08/08 at 9:43pm
 
There used to be salary schedules for each professional title (i.e. elementary, middle, secondary principal, assistant principal). These were not changed unless there were considerations for all classifications. That did not necessarily mean all were changed, only that was a reasoned and a procedural approach to professional compensation. Never heard of 16% increase. One former Superintendent rejected a pay raise until funds were available for teacher raises.
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