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General Category >> Schools and Board of Education >> Disparities
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Message started by riverteacher on 07/10/07 at 2:09am

Title: Disparities
Post by riverteacher on 07/10/07 at 2:09am
Just a little something for the parents to think about:

For any number of reasons, HHS is overcrowded while SPHS is not fully utilized. Politics, football/zoning, fear of Broadway, whatever. One unintended consequence is the effect on class size at HHS. If every room is used every period of the day, you can't hire more teachers, you can only add students to the existing class rolls. One of the greatest strengths of the Hoover System has been its commitment to keeping classes small enough to allow for good teaching practices. I am sure some of you suffered through the old Jefferson County model: pack the room, keep 'em in straight rows, read the chapter, do the questions, keep your mouth shut unless called on.
Unfortunately, class sizes at HHS have, in many cases, reached that point. The teachers struggle just to manage these larger classes, and must discard many of the innovative practices that gave HHS a reputation for academic excellence.
If I were a parent, I would ask to see the sizes for my kid's classes. Don't be fooled by publications of "average class size" because these factor in classes which have as few as four or five kids with special needs. You should be concerned with the size in the regular classes. Does size matter? Give me 24 students--I'm a teacher. Give me 28--I'm a monitor.

Title: Re: Disparities
Post by LawMom on 07/10/07 at 8:23am

riverteacher wrote:
Just a little something for the parents to think about:

For any number of reasons, HHS is overcrowded while SPHS is not fully utilized. Politics, football/zoning, fear of Broadway, whatever. One unintended consequence is the effect on class size at HHS. If every room is used every period of the day, you can't hire more teachers, you can only add students to the existing class rolls. One of the greatest strengths of the Hoover System has been its commitment to keeping classes small enough to allow for good teaching practices. I am sure some of you suffered through the old Jefferson County model: pack the room, keep 'em in straight rows, read the chapter, do the questions, keep your mouth shut unless called on.
Unfortunately, class sizes at HHS have, in many cases, reached that point. The teachers struggle just to manage these larger classes, and must discard many of the innovative practices that gave HHS a reputation for academic excellence.
If I were a parent, I would ask to see the sizes for my kid's classes. Don't be fooled by publications of "average class size" because these factor in classes which have as few as four or five kids with special needs. You should be concerned with the size in the regular classes. Does size matter? Give me 24 students--I'm a teacher. Give me 28--I'm a monitor.


The Board has fallen to the pressures of the parents. They don't want their kids zoned for Spain Park so Hoover will stay overcrowded. The 9th grade building is just a money sucking band-aid. Then, instead of re-zoning and making people deal with the consequences or MOVE, there is talk of building a new high school in Ross Bridge. I am tired of the school system wasting my money.

Title: Re: Disparities
Post by ShadzMtnMom on 07/12/07 at 3:47pm
Rezoning is an issue that we're going to have to deal with again, especially if the Board is resolute in their decision NOT to build another high school right now.  Andy Craig has said more than once recently that he is not interested in spending $80M to build another high school right now.  The board is going to have to consider building more elementary schools before another high school is built.  When you have HHS already overcrowded and Spain Park sitting under capacity, it only makes sense to rezone more students to Spain Park to alleviate the overcrowding problem at HHS.  This is the only way to fix the immediate problem and NOT build a new high school.

Title: Re: Disparities
Post by JBH on 07/13/07 at 2:01pm
Has anyone ever considered putting the IB program over at SPHS?  Maybe some other optional programs that would only be on that  campus?  That way maybe some students would voluntarily head that direction.  Maybe this calls more for creative thinking than brute force.

Title: Re: Disparities
Post by ILuvHoova on 07/13/07 at 2:22pm
Funny you should mention that.  Creative programming is the wave of the future in keeping large rezonings down to a minimum.  Dr. Edwards (a candidate for Superintendent) was one of the pioneers of that effort.  Mrs. Baker was all over him asking him questions about how he managed that in the large system he was Superintendent of.  Dr. Edwards could have EASILY figured out how to move kids around without it becoming "don't you dare move me or my children" like it was in the last Rezoning Go Round.

There are so many possibilities to "even out" or otherwise deal with the two high schools.  The problem is that we've got people in this community who live and breathe Hoover High School and refuse to be moved out of it.

The only reason I want my family to stay zoned to Hoover High right now is because of the fantastic academic opportunities they have available.  And the awful things I've heard about Billy Broadway at Spain Park.  Ok, so that's two reasons.

I'm really glad that the Spain Park Three have brought more academic parity to Spain Park.  But the Spain Park Three have only done so out of selfish motives, not for the good of the community that goes there.  They gave their buddy Broadway that unbelievably disgusting and unprecedented raise of $16000 for what?  Broadway was the one that didn't want the Academies at Spain Park.  Broadway is the one who runs off all of the good teachers (unless they're pretty, then he keeps them around to look at).  

If there was a better Administrator at Spain Park, moving there would be fine with me at this point.  Course, if Good Ole Boy Bishop stays Principal at Hoover High, what difference will it make?

Once again, poor poor leadership has gotten us in this position.

Title: Re: Disparities
Post by LawMom on 07/13/07 at 2:57pm

JBH wrote:
Has anyone ever considered putting the IB program over at SPHS?  Maybe some other optional programs that would only be on that  campus?  That way maybe some students would voluntarily head that direction.  Maybe this calls more for creative thinking than brute force.


The IB program has to be applied for and approved. I don't think Spain Park can 'get' an IB program there.

And it is true, the good teachers are being run off, at SP AND at HOOVER.

Hoover School System pays their teachers more than just about anyone...you have to ask yourself, "why would they leave" and answer that yourself.

Title: Re: Disparities
Post by SPHSgrad06 on 07/17/07 at 12:52pm
I have to interject here.  While there are amazing academic opportunities available at Hoover High School, please do not discount the opportunities available at Spain Park.  I was as prepared (if not more so) for my undergraduate work as my friends who attended Hoover.  The problem with academic disparities is a moot point because the academic quality at both schools is excellent.

(to give myself a little more credibility, let me make note that my sister is a graduate of Hoover High, graduated Summa Cum Laude from her University and is now part of a gradate program in which she is a sought-after research and teaching assistant to the point that she is now involved in assistantships with two world-renowned professors in her field of study.)

Thus, I know that both schools are top in academics.  So, please do not assume that because Spain Park has a dud of an administration the academic quality has suffered.  Yes, it is difficult to get good teachers because of the leadership, but their ignorance is not reflected in the staff.  Spain Park has one of the most dedicated and well-qualified staffs in the nation.  If I may make specific note to Amanda Beason, Jill Sturgeon, Brenda Hasterok, Amy Fineburg, Pamela Harmon, and many more, though I do not have room to list them all.  All-star class teachers.  To have any one of those teachers listed above prepares a student for university work...much less to have had all of them.

So please, realize that many of the disparities exist only in the minds of the board members.

Title: Re: Disparities
Post by LawMom on 07/24/07 at 11:03am

SPHSgrad06 wrote:
I have to interject here.  While there are amazing academic opportunities available at Hoover High School, please do not discount the opportunities available at Spain Park.  I was as prepared (if not more so) for my undergraduate work as my friends who attended Hoover.  The problem with academic disparities is a moot point because the academic quality at both schools is excellent.

(to give myself a little more credibility, let me make note that my sister is a graduate of Hoover High, graduated Summa Cum Laude from her University and is now part of a gradate program in which she is a sought-after research and teaching assistant to the point that she is now involved in assistantships with two world-renowned professors in her field of study.)

Thus, I know that both schools are top in academics.  So, please do not assume that because Spain Park has a dud of an administration the academic quality has suffered.  Yes, it is difficult to get good teachers because of the leadership, but their ignorance is not reflected in the staff.  Spain Park has one of the most dedicated and well-qualified staffs in the nation.  If I may make specific note to Amanda Beason, Jill Sturgeon, Brenda Hasterok, Amy Fineburg, Pamela Harmon, and many more, though I do not have room to list them all.  All-star class teachers.  To have any one of those teachers listed above prepares a student for university work...much less to have had all of them.

So please, realize that many of the disparities exist only in the minds of the board members.


They can't have a big difference in the quality of education at ANY school in Hoover.
The system "teaches to the tests" Meaning that everything that they depend on comes from the SATs. It's the school's report card. So much of the rezoning takes into account how many apartment complexes are zoned for each school (apartment kids=low test scores)

I think if the Spain Park test scores started falling, they would be forced to get a new principal. Evidently complaints of lewd behavior can't get him removed.

Title: Re: Disparities
Post by HooverHooch on 07/24/07 at 12:49pm

LawMom wrote:
[quote author=JBH link=1184051365/0#3 date=1184353286]Has anyone ever considered putting the IB program over at SPHS?  Maybe some other optional programs that would only be on that  campus?  That way maybe some students would voluntarily head that direction.  Maybe this calls more for creative thinking than brute force.


The IB program has to be applied for and approved. I don't think Spain Park can 'get' an IB program there.

And it is true, the good teachers are being run off, at SP AND at HOOVER.

Hoover School System pays their teachers more than just about anyone...you have to ask yourself, "why would they leave" and answer that yourself.


[/quote]


I'd say it's probably because of the parents.  They don't want their personal lives on display for the town gossips to henpeck.  Money isn't everything.

Title: Re: Disparities
Post by DriveSouth on 07/24/07 at 2:08pm
ILuvHoova,  there is another consideration and it is the one that caused me to oppose the most recent efforts to rezone:  For many of those families who were being considered for the rezoning, many of them live on the other side of Hoover from Spain Park.  I have always thought it absurd that the families in the Shades Mountain Elementary zone were sent to SPHS in the first place.  To send children from Bluff Park and Green Valley seems equally absurd.

The fact is that SPHS was built where it is to serve the eastern and southern part of Hoover, but the density of children there did not justify it's size.  So, children have to be bused-in from far flung areas of the city to fill the space...and there is still room for more!

SPHS was built in the spot most convenient to the eastern (and southern) populace without due consideration being given to where the population densities actually existed, or might exist in the future.  Thus, HHS continues to expand near bursting and SPHS is underpopulated because of (surprise!) poor planning on the part of the city and the school system.

Title: Re: Disparities
Post by JBH on 07/24/07 at 3:04pm
When I mentioned the IB program, I was saying that if we had some other specialized programs not availablr at HHS, maybe some students would chose to go there, much like you can choose to go to HHS if you want to be in the IB program.  

Title: Re: Disparities
Post by HooverHooch on 07/24/07 at 5:53pm

JBH wrote:
When I mentioned the IB program, I was saying that if we had some other specialized programs not availablr at HHS, maybe some students would chose to go there, much like you can choose to go to HHS if you want to be in the IB program.  



Like how all the Americans move to Canada for the free health care?

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